Revisited: Nashville's Fast Food Killer

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to check the locks podcast is always I'm John Conner saying thank you for joining me as I do something a little bit different for this particular episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So this week I've got a lot going on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually traveling.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Karen and I are taking our first ever trip to Vegas.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Not only is it our first trip to Vegas, it's also our first trip alone since our child has been born.

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[SPEAKER_00]: which is coming up on, you know, seven, eight years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're really excited.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Our wedding anniversary is actually coming up in the next week or so as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So this is going to be a nice little trip for the two of us and really looking forward to that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the other reason I would argue for the podcast, the bigger reason that I'm doing something different is because this week actually marks four years since check the lock started.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And in that time,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have learned so much.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have been blown away by how amazing this community is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've also, you know, got to forge a wonderful friendship with Olivia.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's been a lot of changes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the show definitely started off one way and has morphed into something completely different and like a lot of things with with time things just change.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I was kind of kicking around what I wanted to do for the

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know we have a lot of listeners who, I mean, we're literally at like 320 episodes, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I know we have a lot of listeners, a lot of members of our community who may have come into the show maybe halfway or you know, have joined at different times and have followed the podcast from different points.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought that it would be really fun to go back to where it all began.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and do a replay of the very first episode of Check The Locks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of people miss Olivia, myself included, so I thought it might be fun to get to hear her on an episode and just kind of take a stroll down memory lane and just again kind of check in at where it all began.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But before I get into that and we get into the replay, I did again just want to take a moment to sincerely thank anyone who is

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[SPEAKER_00]: as has shown up for check the locks in any way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think when Olivia and I started this, we, you know, we knew we were going to have fun doing it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think either of us thought that four years down the line this show would still exist and in some way shape or form.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we were actually texting today and again, it's just kind of amazing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She has her big tests coming up.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we are wishing her lots of luck and support.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We know that she's got this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's going to crush it, but.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, again, it's just it's so insane how you can start this little thing and see such a wonderful community grow around it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So from the bottom of my heart, thank you for supporting the show and and giving me a reason to come into this little office and record this podcast every week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It really does mean so incredibly much.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Also, if I'm talking about the beginning of this podcast, I also have to take a moment and talk about my friend Nat Halliday.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Matt was an amazing producer and an even better friend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He is the reason this podcast sounded remotely professional from the jump.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sadly, he is no longer with us, but I will never do an episode of this show without thinking about his contribution and what he meant to me as a friend into this podcast as a creative partner.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, gotta give some special love to Matt as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I miss y'all a time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So with that, let's quit the Gabby Gabby, get to the very first stabby stabby way before that was even a saying.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go back in the way back machine and let's check out the very first episode of Check The Locks Podcast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Warning, Check The Locks Podcast is a true crime podcast and may contain graphic descriptions of violence, murder, sexual assault, and more.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Check The Locks Podcast is not appropriate for

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to check the locks hotcasts.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is our very first episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Olivia, I don't know about you, but I am super excited to be here and to be doing this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking forward to this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So how are you this morning before we jump into our first case?

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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm super excited.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I've been, you know, wanting to do a podcast for a long time and this opportunity came and I can't wait to get our first episode up and going.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are tuning in, thank you so much for checking out the very first episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I guess for

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[SPEAKER_00]: People who don't know us or what we do, we should take a minute and introduce ourselves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So my name is John Conner.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You may know me from the John Versaceance podcast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I met and got to be friends with my wonderful co-host.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And again, thank you for being here and I live here if you want to tell the people some things about you.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I'm Olivia Corneu.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I am just a nurse practitioner in New Orleans.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And I met John on the John conversations podcast after I was on Lifetime's Marit at First Site in New Orleans.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And we just kind of had this instant connection and got to talk in.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And here we are recording our very first in our own podcast, check the locks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And again, just could not be happier to be here and be doing this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And for folks who may not know, you know, each episode, we're going to jump in to a truly terrifying true crime case.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, that's a lot to say, truly terrifying, true crime case.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it's been so much fun to research and brainstorm and we got the Instagram going.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a Facebook group that you can join.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll talk about that a little bit more a little bit later.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I figured we could go ahead and jump on into this week's

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[SPEAKER_00]: episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I picked the case for this first episode, second episode is going to be Olivia's case, but we're going to kind of talk through it and you know, just kind of share these details with you and at the end we'll talk about how spine-chilling we think it is or if we'd be able to sleep after.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So again, thank you so much for being here and we can kind of jump right into this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That sound good to you Olivia.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I sounds like a plan.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I will say it's very hard to pick your first case.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I think that was the hardest part of this whole thing was deciding who is my first case that I'm

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm right there with you too, because for people who may not know, we were kind of brainstorming.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We thought it would be cool.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's do a case from the state that we're living in now or hometowns.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I did a Nashville case for this one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm from Michigan originally.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not technically like a hometown case, but it is, you know, local case for me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I know one that we're doing in the next episode is from New Orleans.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're really, really excited.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I did want to ask before we started, like, did it seem a little bit more personal for you when you were researching.

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[SPEAKER_00]: your case, because I know I was like, oh, I know where this is, I know where that is, I know this area, so did you find the same thing?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, my case takes place in Baton Rouge, actually.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And it happened in my lifetime.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So I was a teenager when this was happening.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And so you remember watching it on the news and just hearing how this case came to fruition.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's close to home, even though it's not anywhere related to me, but definitely interesting to do a case from the home state of Louisiana.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I am really, really excited to hear about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll go ahead and jump into this week's case.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So this week, we are talking about Paul Dennis Reed, also known as the Nashville Fast Food Killer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Our story takes place on Sunday, February 16th, 1997, which does hold a very special connection to me because February 16th is actually my birthday.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So when I started research and I was like, oh, this is a terrible thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: that happened.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was, I would have been 12 years old, because I was born in 85.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, but our story takes place in Donaldson, Tennessee.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, throughout this, we may call it Nashville, because a lot of the cities that these things happened in are in the Nashville area.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, a lot of people refer to it as Nashville, but it did happen in Donaldson.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, it opens at a Captain D's restaurant.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to ask you, Olivia, do you guys have Captain D's in New Orleans?

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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think we have had any New Orleans, but I did grow up eating Captain D's.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We had one in my hometown.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we did not have it in Michigan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We had like long john silvers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of the same equivalent.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't eat fast fish.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Something about it, but for the most part, I'm staying out of like drive through fish places.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Sunday morning, February 16, 1997, an employee named Tara Anderson arrives for her morning shift at the Captain D's restaurant.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And she realizes that the doors are locked.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's no answer at the door.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The manager should be there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They should be getting ready for the Sunday lunch rush.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So she takes a look.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The chairs aren't down.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Just things don't look right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So she calls, nobody answers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So she then calls the police.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She calls the police and then about 20 minutes later an area manager shows up with a key.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When they first walk in, I guess they couldn't tell that anything had really occurred.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The restaurant looked really clean.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The registers and the safe were closed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But they noticed that lunch prep was already gotten started.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Captain D's, they have coal saw stuff like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's cabbage being cut.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Stuff out looks like the day was getting started.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever worked in a restaurant?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I did a lot of fast food, but I did a lot of restaurant jobs when I was a kid.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever like done like the prep and all that?

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[SPEAKER_04]: The only thing I've ever done was work at a yogurt sandwich shop.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, my very first job I worked in a meat market.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they would like cut up cow legs and all the stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It would be my job to then go and clean up like the meat saw afterward, which was disgusting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's a story for another time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, the area manager is there with the employer and they're walking through and they decide that they're going to check the back of the restaurant.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they go into the walking cooler.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That is where they discovered two bodies.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The detective show up and we're going to talk about him a lot throughout because he was in the main detective on the case.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But his name is Pat Pistiglioni, which is again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of fun to say.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So he's the time to the case and there's two bodies.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like they were both lying face down and each victim was shot several times.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now what they also notice is that there are clear signs of overkill.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you know for having people,

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[SPEAKER_00]: In a cooler on their knees, stuff like that, it definitely didn't look like they needed to be shot as many times as they were.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The victims were identified as 16-year-old Sarah Jackson and the restaurant manager 28-year-old Steve Hampton.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Steve was a father three.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was happily married and doing well at his career in Captain D's.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sarah had been working at the restaurant for about eight months.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Her mother Gina Jackson described Sarah as the typical teenager.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She was going to school working and she had just bought a car that she had had for about two and a half weeks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just a typical teenager was really excited to kind of, you know, dodge and run around all over town.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Detective, basically, only learns that there is $7,500 in small bills and coins missing from the restaurant.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Detectives then suspect that the suspect got the victims in the cooler by convincing them that they were being robbed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you get in the cooler.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna rob you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna get out of here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna take off.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The suspect Unfortunately did take their lives and then as he left he locked the door behind him that way He could delay the discovery of the victims.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously this takes place in Donaldson I actually talked to a family member because my wife is from The Nashville area her whole family is as lived here the majority of their lives and I asked a family member Shoutout to Denise Sawyer who is my

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, my wife's aunt, but I was like, what was it like in the Nashville, Donaldson area back in 1997 because Nashville now is it, have you been in Nashville?

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[SPEAKER_04]: I have not.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's on my list of places to go.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you have a place to stay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So come on up.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess there's like 500 people moving to Nashville every day.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just, it's booming.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's hustle and bustling like downtown is always insane.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess back in 97, there was still that tourist element to like the

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[SPEAKER_00]: the cities that kind of surrounded it were typically pretty quiet.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So this was a big, like this was a big thing for the community.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So investigators asked employees, hey, did you guys notice anything out of the ordinary in the last couple of days?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And staff from the night before said a man came in shortly after closing, looking for a job.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He said he was a cook and he asked for a job application.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Employees of the restaurant look through hundreds of police photographs, but they're not able to identify the man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They described him as being a big, tall, white male in his 30s.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They also described him as very muscular.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Police learn that Sarah Jackson left for work at 830 a.m. and arrived at Captain D's roughly 10 minutes later.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Around nine, a woman on her way to church, notice some activity at the restaurant's front door.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She recalled Steve Hampton who again was the manager holding the door with his foot and speaking to a male with a white piece of paper in his hand.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Another witness said that they saw a man matching the description, leaving it roughly 920 in the morning.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Police suspect the man who came in for the job application is the same man who committed the murders.

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[SPEAKER_00]: At this point that detective suspects that the person who committed the crime in his own words was a psychopath who was bent on killing his witnesses.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about you when you've been researching your stories, but it's kind of hard as a normal person to try to put yourself in the mind of the person who's doing this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're going to rob somebody, why not just rob them, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't have to commit the murder.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's, you know, you got what you need.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You can leave, but there's got to be a little bit of a psychopathic element if you're like, I could just leave, but I'm going to kill these people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So police get a new break in the case.

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[SPEAKER_00]: A man was picking up cans on the side of the highway and they found items that belong to Steve Hampton.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Steve's wife had told police that he had $600 in his wallet the day that he was killed and it was money to pay the rent, which I was also like, I don't know about you, but I was like $600 for rent.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I need to... Yeah, when did that come about?

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[SPEAKER_04]: That's what rent cost in 1997?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I was like, I need a time machine.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be balling out of control.

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[SPEAKER_04]: who has $600 cash just in their pockets?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking about that too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's the 90s, and I know you're like me, like we grew up in that period.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I can't think about like, I can't think of what would be like just to have that much cash in my wallet.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In general.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I barely have a 20 in my wallet.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We do a lot of shopping at all these, and it is hard sometimes even be like, do I have a quarter for the shopping cart?

15:02.684 --> 15:05.968
[SPEAKER_00]: Let alone be on like, I've got $600 in my wallet.

15:06.421 --> 15:12.730
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a man he's picking up cans on the side of the road, and he actually finds Steve Hampton's wallet.

15:13.552 --> 15:19.400
[SPEAKER_00]: And in a super rare twist, because I guess this doesn't happen very often, but the guy finds the wallet.

15:19.460 --> 15:20.662
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got his ID in it.

15:21.103 --> 15:23.947
[SPEAKER_00]: So he calls the cops and I was like, hey, I found the wallet.

15:23.967 --> 15:27.773
[SPEAKER_00]: What they found was that the killer had stole the cash, but he tossed ID credit cards.

15:27.793 --> 15:32.440
[SPEAKER_00]: There was also a video rental car, which is another thing that kind of dates this story as well.

15:32.460 --> 15:34.723
[SPEAKER_00]: Did

15:35.159 --> 16:03.883
[SPEAKER_00]: Friday nights was the place to go to the video shop get your your VHS videos your candy your popcorn Oh yeah kids don't even these days don't even know what that means there's a really good documentary on Netflix is called the last blockbuster Oh yeah it's an organ I think yeah I worked a blockbuster when I was a teenager and so I still have I've saved it in my drawer I have like my I was like cousin like you know 50 years I doubt any of these are gonna exist so it's all laminated I'm like hold on to it

16:04.842 --> 16:11.954
[SPEAKER_00]: So, they've, get these items turned in and they're lucky enough that they're able to pull a partial print from the video rental card.

16:12.475 --> 16:18.004
[SPEAKER_00]: But when they run it, because again, back then, you know, it was more of a regional database than like a national database.

16:18.465 --> 16:21.670
[SPEAKER_00]: They run it in a regional database and they don't get any hits off of it.

16:21.650 --> 16:25.058
[SPEAKER_00]: So police are now frustrated, you know, it's a small town.

16:25.399 --> 16:27.383
[SPEAKER_00]: Things like this don't occur very often.

16:27.704 --> 16:29.708
[SPEAKER_00]: They're working long days of looking for leads.

16:30.230 --> 16:32.114
[SPEAKER_00]: They're staying in contact with the victim's family.

16:32.154 --> 16:36.925
[SPEAKER_00]: And one thing that really stuck out to me being a parent was,

16:36.905 --> 16:45.497
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the detective was talking about, you know, I had to keep assuring these families that I was going to find the person that killed their their children and we didn't have any leads.

16:45.657 --> 16:52.207
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's frustrating because you want to give them that assurance, but it's also like I've got nothing to go on at this point, which I thought I was very interesting.

16:52.908 --> 17:00.899
[SPEAKER_04]: That is interesting since we're in 1997 is that these fast food restaurants don't have surveillance cameras.

17:00.919 --> 17:05.005
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you go to a fast food restaurant nowadays and there's cameras everywhere.

17:05.390 --> 17:16.480
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I was thinking the same thing because you know, when the research that I did, I watched some ID discovery shows and some people had done some different YouTube videos on stuff like that they never mentioned the security cameras.

17:17.000 --> 17:21.384
[SPEAKER_00]: And I got to think, I was like, what was the, like, I wonder what the cost of that would have been?

17:21.765 --> 17:25.468
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you can get like a ring stick up cam now for like 70 bucks.

17:25.549 --> 17:33.837
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm sure, you know, in 97, it was like a $2,000, you know, for like two cameras and everything had to be recorded to tape and everything like that.

17:33.877 --> 17:39.603
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm sure it was probably didn't need it because you're in a small town outside of Nashville.

17:39.623 --> 17:42.065
[SPEAKER_04]: It's expected to be safe and who's gonna hit a captain D's?

17:42.365 --> 17:42.566
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

17:42.906 --> 17:44.948
[SPEAKER_00]: You kind of hit the nail on the head

17:45.029 --> 17:52.363
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what the cops in the assistant district attorney were saying was that, you know, this is not the type of crime that police really encountered on a regular basis.

17:53.104 --> 17:59.636
[SPEAKER_00]: And based on the nature of the crime, Detective Pistig Leone was very concerned that this killer would strike again.

17:59.697 --> 18:04.566
[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, five weeks later, that fear became a reality.

18:05.007 --> 18:07.932
[SPEAKER_00]: It's now March 23 of 1997.

18:07.912 --> 18:16.484
[SPEAKER_00]: And a 911 call is received from McDonald's on Lebanon Road and it's approximately two miles from where the incident at Captain D's took place.

18:17.446 --> 18:32.788
[SPEAKER_00]: And on the call, which I've actually listened to the 911 call, and it's kind of heartbreaking because you can hear this man and he's just saying, please, and he's kind of grunting and moaning a little bit, and then he tells the 911 dispatcher, like, I don't speak English.

18:37.595 --> 19:01.341
[SPEAKER_00]: That language barrier kind of prevents him from being like, this is what's going on, you know what I mean, so it kind of breaks your heart a little bit.

19:01.878 --> 19:06.624
[SPEAKER_00]: So the police arrive, they show up at the McDonald's, and they believe that there may be someone inside.

19:06.905 --> 19:15.256
[SPEAKER_00]: So they proceed to break the glass on the front door, they enter, and immediately, the scene at McDonald's was extremely bloody and police found multiple victims.

19:16.257 --> 19:20.423
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're going through, and what they noticed is that one man is fortunately still breathing.

19:20.563 --> 19:27.312
[SPEAKER_00]: They rushed him to the emergency room, and why he's going to the emergency room, the police are still there investigating.

19:27.292 --> 19:30.035
[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, they find three additional victims.

19:30.135 --> 19:36.803
[SPEAKER_00]: There's 17-year-old Andrea Brown, 23-year-old Robert Tule and 27-year-old Ronald Santiago.

19:37.143 --> 19:40.026
[SPEAKER_00]: The gentleman who survived was named Jose Gonzalez.

19:40.046 --> 19:44.231
[SPEAKER_00]: He was 30 years old, and he was actually the man who made the 911 call.

19:44.671 --> 19:47.174
[SPEAKER_00]: So at this point, Gonzalez, he's the only witness.

19:47.394 --> 19:48.475
[SPEAKER_00]: He's in critical condition.

19:48.696 --> 19:51.679
[SPEAKER_00]: Police are worried that the killer may try to silence him.

19:51.659 --> 19:55.087
[SPEAKER_00]: so they kept him in protective custody at the hospital.

19:55.147 --> 20:00.259
[SPEAKER_00]: There was armed police officers around his door 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

20:01.041 --> 20:05.271
[SPEAKER_00]: The killer made off with $2,300, but most of it was in coins.

20:05.772 --> 20:06.293
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

20:07.420 --> 20:12.975
[SPEAKER_04]: So get it out to get it out to the banks and find out who's cashin' in hundreds of dollars and cooling.

20:12.995 --> 20:15.842
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's what I was wondering though, was like, we have coin star, right?

20:15.923 --> 20:19.211
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, you go dump all those coins in in 97.

20:19.251 --> 20:20.274
[SPEAKER_00]: You would've had to roll.

20:20.314 --> 20:22.881
[SPEAKER_04]: Roll, your coins and drop them off at a bank.

20:23.097 --> 20:27.402
[SPEAKER_00]: which I don't know how you have the time to murder someone if you're rolling $2,300.

20:27.722 --> 20:30.405
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's what he's doing in his five weeks.

20:30.525 --> 20:30.726
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

20:31.126 --> 20:32.948
[SPEAKER_04]: I was just thinking like, okay, it's been five weeks.

20:33.028 --> 20:35.751
[SPEAKER_04]: Why did he wait five weeks before he struck again?

20:35.812 --> 20:37.554
[SPEAKER_04]: He was too busy rolling all these coins.

20:37.774 --> 20:38.475
[SPEAKER_00]: My thumbs would hurt.

20:38.495 --> 20:41.758
[SPEAKER_00]: We went to the bank to deposit money in Millie's bank account.

20:42.439 --> 20:44.161
[SPEAKER_00]: And we had, you know, we empty it for piggy bank.

20:44.441 --> 20:46.444
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're like, oh, they have a coin star.

20:46.464 --> 20:47.365
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, we don't have one.

20:47.385 --> 20:48.106
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to roll it.

20:48.146 --> 20:49.387
[SPEAKER_00]: So they put us in an office.

20:49.988 --> 20:51.990
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like 50 bucks and coins.

20:55.902 --> 20:56.963
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so awful.

20:57.764 --> 21:01.267
[SPEAKER_00]: So at this point, the entire city was in a panic.

21:01.287 --> 21:07.293
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you can imagine, fast food workers were like, fuck this, I'm out, I'm not working fast food anymore.

21:08.415 --> 21:15.081
[SPEAKER_00]: And really, you know, because of the age of the victims, parents were really hesitant about having their kids working restaurants.

21:15.722 --> 21:21.808
[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Pistig Leone had discussed how hard it was to not become personally involved because of that.

21:21.788 --> 21:43.425
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're looking at 16, 17 year old kids and they haven't even really had the time in their lives to, you know, I know at 16, like I caused a little bit of trouble, but I hadn't really like had the opportunity to mess up my life in any way, like I was still like a pretty innocent kid at 16, I don't know, I don't know if you were a hell razor or anything like that, but

21:44.249 --> 21:44.890
[SPEAKER_02]: Not at all.

21:45.330 --> 21:45.531
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

21:45.911 --> 21:47.493
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I ask my mom now?

21:47.513 --> 21:48.435
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

21:48.455 --> 21:52.420
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, these kids were, you know, just kids, like probably looking at colleges and stuff like that.

21:52.520 --> 22:02.494
[SPEAKER_00]: So for him, because of that, that level of innocence and, and their lives being taken as such a young age, I think it was really hard for him.

22:02.474 --> 22:07.328
[SPEAKER_00]: And now two weeks have passed since the McDonald's murder and they're in the same spot.

22:07.388 --> 22:08.631
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just no lead.

22:08.651 --> 22:13.364
[SPEAKER_00]: So police are really hoping that Jose Gonzalez may be able to provide some crucial info.

22:14.107 --> 22:17.496
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I thought this was really cool because at the time,

22:17.476 --> 22:18.938
[SPEAKER_00]: Jose wasn't able to speak.

22:19.439 --> 22:25.328
[SPEAKER_00]: He could motion with his hands, but because of what happened to him at the time, he couldn't really put it into words.

22:25.828 --> 22:29.594
[SPEAKER_00]: So they would ask him, you know, how many people did this to you?

22:29.694 --> 22:31.917
[SPEAKER_00]: Hold up the number of fingers and he would hold up one finger.

22:32.498 --> 22:34.100
[SPEAKER_00]: And then ask him, you know, was he a white guy?

22:34.200 --> 22:35.042
[SPEAKER_00]: Was he a black guy?

22:35.102 --> 22:38.086
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, hold up one finger for white, two fingers for black, et cetera.

22:38.206 --> 22:41.391
[SPEAKER_00]: Then he held up one finger and said, it was a white guy.

22:41.371 --> 22:46.342
[SPEAKER_00]: As Jose started to recover, he was actually able to shed more light on the events of that evening.

22:47.023 --> 22:50.691
[SPEAKER_00]: So at about 11 p.m., the foreign players are about to leave the store.

22:50.711 --> 22:53.137
[SPEAKER_00]: They had finished, you know, closing duties are getting ready to leave.

22:53.457 --> 22:58.789
[SPEAKER_00]: And the killer was actually waiting outside with a gun and forced the employees back into the building.

22:58.769 --> 23:02.815
[SPEAKER_00]: He forced the manager to open the safe and then forced employees into the cooler.

23:03.096 --> 23:07.282
[SPEAKER_00]: The suspect fired six times, shooting each victim in the head twice.

23:07.563 --> 23:16.557
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, when it came to Jose, the suspect actually ran out of ammunition and before he could reload to shoot Jose Gonzalez, Jose did something incredibly brave.

23:16.677 --> 23:18.720
[SPEAKER_00]: He jumped up and tackled the suspect.

23:19.101 --> 23:26.532
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, the suspect then pulled a knife and he stabbed Jose several times in the neck and shoulder area.

23:26.512 --> 23:28.575
[SPEAKER_00]: The suspect was like, hey, I've got him.

23:28.776 --> 23:29.237
[SPEAKER_00]: I killed him.

23:29.257 --> 23:30.078
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to bleed out.

23:30.579 --> 23:31.300
[SPEAKER_00]: He left him for dead.

23:31.340 --> 23:31.981
[SPEAKER_00]: He leaves.

23:32.562 --> 23:39.254
[SPEAKER_00]: But the cops run into an issue because during the Captain D's murders, they were provided a composite sketch.

23:39.274 --> 23:40.275
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody was like, I saw the guy.

23:40.335 --> 23:41.177
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what he looks like.

23:41.317 --> 23:43.180
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the employees there talked about him coming in.

23:43.641 --> 23:44.863
[SPEAKER_00]: They drew a composite sketch.

23:45.244 --> 23:50.713
[SPEAKER_00]: But when Jose gives his description of the killer, it doesn't match that original composite sketch.

23:50.693 --> 23:54.999
[SPEAKER_00]: but detected pastigly only believes in his guts that it is the same guy.

23:55.379 --> 24:11.180
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know about the New Orleans area, but at that time there was 500 fast food restaurants in the Nashville area and it feels like now in 2022 there's like 500 fast food restaurants within like five miles miles.

24:11.461 --> 24:11.841
[SPEAKER_00]: So

24:11.821 --> 24:19.014
[SPEAKER_00]: They put surveillance on as many of those restaurants as they could, hoping that the killer would strike while they were there, but unfortunately didn't happen.

24:19.415 --> 24:28.170
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's now two months after the Captain D's and McDonald's murders, and police still only had that partial print and two different composite sketches.

24:28.251 --> 24:32.378
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, stuck in a situation where we had no suspects.

24:32.543 --> 24:40.403
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to ask you this, as a nurse, when somebody comes in, have you ever had a situation where they're telling you what's going on, but it's hard to diagnose.

24:40.663 --> 24:45.034
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, oh, these are my symptoms of this and that, but you can't figure out exactly what it is.

24:45.487 --> 24:46.168
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, all the time.

24:46.348 --> 24:47.630
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, people will be like, I'm dizzy.

24:47.750 --> 24:51.394
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, this can be one of a hundred things, you know.

24:51.434 --> 24:58.723
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you're not getting the true specifics of what's happening, it's hard to really pinpoint, you know, what that diagnosis is.

24:58.843 --> 25:07.073
[SPEAKER_04]: But after listening here, I would say, just by listening and hearing what's happening and what's similar in these cases is one,

25:07.053 --> 25:09.098
[SPEAKER_04]: They're in the freezer.

25:09.178 --> 25:10.522
[SPEAKER_04]: The refrigerator, the freezer.

25:10.602 --> 25:12.266
[SPEAKER_04]: He's brought them into that same place.

25:12.327 --> 25:13.830
[SPEAKER_04]: That to me is huge, okay?

25:14.211 --> 25:17.099
[SPEAKER_04]: So you either have a copycat killer or you have the same killer.

25:17.239 --> 25:24.117
[SPEAKER_04]: Despite that the composite sketch didn't match the descriptions, one who they obviously had some sort of

25:24.586 --> 25:30.457
[SPEAKER_04]: injury and suffered some trauma from it and trauma is a big thing when it comes to like remembering events.

25:31.418 --> 25:42.358
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was just kind of ruled that out as like maybe he's just mistaking, but either have a copycat killer now or you have the same serial killer on the loose that's about to hit another fast food restaurant.

25:42.338 --> 25:52.547
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm there with you, too, because it seems like money is missing, killing the employees, the thing that suck out to me a lot with this is that, you know, the first victims were shot.

25:53.048 --> 25:57.360
[SPEAKER_00]: This time he's got a knife on him, like he's prepared, you know, in case he needs that.

25:57.340 --> 26:02.585
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just as a police officer, again, you know, here in Pistig Leone and those interviews kind of talk about like how hard it was.

26:02.645 --> 26:04.847
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that, you know, now something else has happened.

26:04.867 --> 26:05.948
[SPEAKER_00]: There's still no leads.

26:06.069 --> 26:10.153
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we've got another three bodies and we're just like we got to figure out what's going on.

26:10.873 --> 26:19.341
[SPEAKER_00]: So now it is April 23rd, 1997, and it's around closing time at a basking robins and Clarksville, Tennessee.

26:19.822 --> 26:22.384
[SPEAKER_00]: Now Clarksville is only about an hour outside of Nashville.

26:22.505 --> 26:26.048
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's still pretty close in that same area.

26:26.028 --> 26:31.076
[SPEAKER_00]: 16-year-old Michelle Mays and 21-year-old Angela Holmes are finishing their shifts.

26:31.296 --> 26:33.961
[SPEAKER_00]: Michelle actually had dreams of being a marine biologist.

26:34.121 --> 26:40.251
[SPEAKER_00]: Her family said that she'd talk nonstop, that you know, she was just one of those kids who just always had something to say.

26:40.271 --> 26:43.836
[SPEAKER_00]: Angela was a new mother who was working her way through nursing school.

26:44.157 --> 26:49.285
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, young kids working at a basking robins, working on goals, making their life better.

26:49.703 --> 26:54.012
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, around closing, Michelle had called her mom to arrange a ride home.

26:54.674 --> 26:59.464
[SPEAKER_00]: Michelle's mom, Connie Black, recalls telling Michelle that her brother would be coming to pick her up.

26:59.985 --> 27:07.982
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is such a mom thing because her mom said, one thing that really stuck out to her was the fact that Michelle had requested potato soup for dinner.

27:07.962 --> 27:24.587
[SPEAKER_00]: So like in that that's the detail that she remembers from that that final phone call was just like she just really wanted potato soup and I told her maybe being a parent you remember like the weirdest things you know and so it's I don't know it's got to be a weird feeling to like have that be like so vivid in your head

27:24.567 --> 27:32.162
[SPEAKER_00]: So, just as Michelle was wrapping up that phone call with her mom, she told her mom that she had to go as a customer just walked in.

27:32.342 --> 27:37.211
[SPEAKER_00]: About 10 minutes later, Michelle's brother Craig arrives to pick her up, and he had a weird feeling.

27:37.231 --> 27:45.006
[SPEAKER_00]: He called his mom and was like, hey, there's something we're going on, all the lights are on, but I don't see anybody clean in, getting ready to leave anything like that.

27:44.986 --> 27:46.169
[SPEAKER_00]: So Craig looks inside.

27:46.289 --> 27:48.675
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no sign of Michelle or Angela.

27:48.895 --> 27:52.043
[SPEAKER_00]: 20 minutes later, Clarksville police arrive at the Basque Robbins.

27:52.544 --> 27:57.535
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a sign of a struggle, but the safe and the cash register drawers had been emptied.

27:57.676 --> 28:00.362
[SPEAKER_00]: Police feared that the girls have been kidnapped during the robbery.

28:00.342 --> 28:06.109
[SPEAKER_00]: As they always do, local media jumped on the story and police began a search of the area to find the missing girls.

28:06.249 --> 28:14.219
[SPEAKER_00]: The next morning, about three miles away, a man is out for a walk in Dunbar State Park, and he finds a body in the shallow part of the lake.

28:14.240 --> 28:19.026
[SPEAKER_00]: Papestig Leone was getting ready for work that morning, and he heard the details on the news.

28:19.646 --> 28:22.570
[SPEAKER_00]: He immediately felt that the cases may be connected.

28:22.550 --> 28:27.921
[SPEAKER_00]: Angela Holmes was found in the shallow area of the lake next to the bank in a face-down position.

28:28.502 --> 28:31.969
[SPEAKER_00]: Michelle's body is found in the woods less than 100 feet from Angela's.

28:32.610 --> 28:36.137
[SPEAKER_00]: Both girls suffered multiple stab wounds and had their throats cut.

28:36.698 --> 28:38.962
[SPEAKER_00]: Both women showed signs of overkill.

28:39.463 --> 28:43.832
[SPEAKER_00]: Michelle had 14 stab wounds and Angela was almost decapitated.

28:43.812 --> 28:50.200
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, at this point the motive of the crime seemed to match Captain D's and McDonald's murder, but something had changed.

28:50.480 --> 28:52.223
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just about the robbery anymore.

28:52.563 --> 28:55.387
[SPEAKER_00]: It seemed as though the suspect was beginning to enjoy the kill.

28:55.407 --> 28:57.409
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you get the same kind of vibe from that?

28:58.130 --> 29:00.934
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, I'm sitting here thinking of like, what is happening?

29:01.114 --> 29:03.757
[SPEAKER_04]: First off, the Captain D's murder happened in the morning time.

29:04.438 --> 29:06.020
[SPEAKER_04]: So why did he start in the morning?

29:06.621 --> 29:08.603
[SPEAKER_04]: And it just seems that he's getting more aggressive as it comes.

29:08.623 --> 29:10.005
[SPEAKER_04]: So the first one was in the morning.

29:10.745 --> 29:11.987
[SPEAKER_04]: and he leaves him in the freezer.

29:12.548 --> 29:18.376
[SPEAKER_04]: The second one happens in the evening time and then he leaves him in the freezer, but also has a knife.

29:18.436 --> 29:29.292
[SPEAKER_04]: So I feel like something has happened from the, I guess he has the knife for the third one, but something is happening along the way that's making him one more aggressive and two, he's kind of changing up his attack mode.

29:29.312 --> 29:35.881
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, he's getting, he's just getting more aggressive and why wouldn't he just leave the girl's bodies at the basketball robins?

29:35.942 --> 29:40.448
[SPEAKER_04]: Why does he feel the need that he needs to take them away

29:40.681 --> 29:42.945
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm there with you because it seems like it goes.

29:43.245 --> 29:47.291
[SPEAKER_00]: Captain D's, okay, you could, you know, you get what?

29:47.412 --> 29:50.657
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you got 20, if I go back to my notes, I think you got $2300 there.

29:51.137 --> 29:55.284
[SPEAKER_00]: McDonald's is like 7500, like, like, you know, he's so far have calculated it.

29:55.704 --> 30:08.224
[SPEAKER_04]: From Captain D's from McDonald's and the $600 in the wallet, he has collected $10,400, which in 97, I mean, still now, that's a lot of money, but like in 1997, that's a decent amount of money.

30:08.272 --> 30:31.647
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not sure like adjusted for inflation, but I would imagine it's probably the equivalent of like maybe like 20, but and you go from doing that and then you rob an ice cream shop, you know, and to me, it kind of felt like I get money from it, but I am more into the murder aspect because how much money are you really going to get from a basket robins in a small southern town.

30:31.627 --> 30:57.162
[SPEAKER_04]: right now it seems that he's doing this for the the thrill of killing you know maybe before is like let me see what I can get away with and then maybe he just said out to rob the captain these in the morning when they were opening which is kind of a silly time because I would think that there wouldn't be that much money lying around but then I feel like okay he got away with that one and then he waited and he got away with the second one and it's just I think now he's like okay I can be a full blown serial killer without getting caught

30:57.142 --> 31:02.409
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, because if you're watching the news and you're like the cops don't have any leads, they have no idea who I am.

31:02.469 --> 31:05.013
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure like you begin to feel emboldened.

31:05.554 --> 31:08.358
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, where you're just, I'm doing this and I'm not getting caught.

31:08.538 --> 31:11.162
[SPEAKER_00]: So that drive, I want to escalate this.

31:11.362 --> 31:12.243
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not getting caught.

31:12.263 --> 31:14.226
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that pushed him in that direction.

31:14.266 --> 31:18.031
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, at this point, this was no longer about the robbery.

31:18.071 --> 31:20.635
[SPEAKER_00]: He's enjoying what he's doing.

31:20.615 --> 31:22.358
[SPEAKER_00]: And the cops were like, we've still got nothing.

31:22.438 --> 31:26.084
[SPEAKER_00]: The police in Clarksville, they set up a police tip line.

31:26.665 --> 31:30.812
[SPEAKER_00]: And a woman reports seeing a red car at the Basque and Robins near closing time.

31:31.012 --> 31:38.024
[SPEAKER_00]: Now they get another tip from another witness who says they claim they saw a red car at the Dunbar State Park roughly 30 minutes later.

31:38.565 --> 31:39.907
[SPEAKER_00]: So police set up roadblocks.

31:39.927 --> 31:41.229
[SPEAKER_00]: So like we're looking for a red car.

31:41.550 --> 31:43.112
[SPEAKER_00]: They set up the roadblocks.

31:43.132 --> 31:45.897
[SPEAKER_00]: They searched thousands of cars that they stopped.

31:45.877 --> 31:47.241
[SPEAKER_00]: still no leads.

31:47.602 --> 31:54.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we're at seven people murdered, you know, families live shattered, and the police are still like, we've got nothing.

31:55.023 --> 31:56.665
[SPEAKER_00]: So now it's June 1st, 1997.

31:56.746 --> 32:00.291
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been six weeks since the Baskin Robbins murders.

32:00.531 --> 32:05.719
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitchell Roberts is a manager at a Nashville shone's restaurant, and he's at home with his family.

32:05.939 --> 32:11.026
[SPEAKER_00]: His son was actually filming the family dog because they were actually putting him down the next day.

32:11.267 --> 32:13.169
[SPEAKER_00]: At that point, there's a knock on the door.

32:13.189 --> 32:14.752
[SPEAKER_00]: It is Paul Dennis Reed.

32:15.052 --> 32:20.140
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a short order cook at the shone's until Mitch fired him, and he's standing there at the glass storm door.

32:20.360 --> 32:23.865
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, at this point, we're gonna talk a little bit more about Paul Dennis Reed.

32:23.845 --> 32:33.508
[SPEAKER_00]: Reed was born in Richland Hills, Texas, in November of 1957, after his parents divorced, Reed and one of his sisters lived with his father and paternal grandmother.

32:33.728 --> 32:41.787
[SPEAKER_00]: He sustained head trauma a number of times during his developmental years, including one occasion where he was actually hit on the side of the head with a brick.

32:41.767 --> 32:47.174
[SPEAKER_00]: By the age of four or five, he was causing problems in the neighborhood and seriously misbehaving at home.

32:47.454 --> 32:51.299
[SPEAKER_00]: He actually tried to set his grandmother's bed on fire while she was in it.

32:51.499 --> 32:55.584
[SPEAKER_00]: And on another occasion, he beat his grandmother's dog to death with a baseball bat.

32:56.305 --> 32:58.167
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, can we stop right here for a second?

32:58.428 --> 32:58.628
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

32:59.689 --> 33:02.833
[SPEAKER_04]: This is all signs of a psychopath.

33:03.774 --> 33:04.175
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, 110%.

33:05.396 --> 33:08.500
[SPEAKER_04]: First off, who's hitting a young child in the head with a brick?

33:09.577 --> 33:14.606
[SPEAKER_00]: I had watched some YouTube videos and again kind of doing my research.

33:14.706 --> 33:24.202
[SPEAKER_00]: I found a couple of people who had mentioned this, but I had a really hard time like substantiating it until I went through the state of Tennessee verse Paul Reed in 2012.

33:25.003 --> 33:27.608
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it looks like this kind of comes up a little bit later.

33:27.648 --> 33:30.573
[SPEAKER_00]: So it, you know, I was like digging digging digging because I saw this.

33:30.633 --> 33:31.634
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, man, I wonder if it's true.

33:31.654 --> 33:35.601
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I found it in that that court record.

33:35.581 --> 33:53.033
[SPEAKER_00]: and i'm right there with you know care of my wife is a as a social worker so when i'm going through this i'm like you know these are all signs of this person as a child needs some definite help but i was wondering you know this is nineteen fifty seven when he's born and then by the age of four or five he was causing problems

33:53.013 --> 33:53.534
[SPEAKER_00]: in the home.

33:53.554 --> 33:57.281
[SPEAKER_00]: So it like it sounds like he was like not even 10 years old when he's trying to do this.

33:57.962 --> 34:04.034
[SPEAKER_00]: So one thing that I was really wondering about was like, did people know about these warning signs as commonly as we do?

34:04.435 --> 34:13.131
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you know, there's movies and TV shows where, you know, you see these warning signs, you're like, that kid's a psycho, but was it as common back then?

34:13.803 --> 34:21.476
[SPEAKER_04]: You just don't think people probably talked about it as much as we do now, you know, people tried to live, you know, the life where everything looks picture perfect.

34:21.536 --> 34:22.878
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like in that time frame.

34:22.918 --> 34:27.425
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, okay, yeah, my son, you know, might have done this and this and that.

34:27.485 --> 34:29.509
[SPEAKER_04]: But he hasn't really harmed anybody.

34:30.110 --> 34:36.380
[SPEAKER_04]: But I would say trying to set your grandmother's bed on fire while she's in it and beating her dog to death is something's not right.

34:36.540 --> 34:38.764
[SPEAKER_04]: And mental institutions did exist at that time.

34:39.217 --> 34:58.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's another thing I was thinking though is like they existed but it was like you know electro shock therapy and like dipping you in ice bath and stuff like that So it's just like I think what you brought up is very important point is it was a very like we need to be like leave it to beaver We don't talk about these things, but it just seems like the mental health aspect is really evolved.

34:58.561 --> 34:59.082
[SPEAKER_00]: I know

34:59.483 --> 35:25.761
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, being the father of a three-year-old and with what Cara does for a living, we have had that conversation, we were like, well, what would we do if, you know, we start seeing signs that, you know, things, cause I think now, you know so much about it now that is as apparent, you're like, yeah, I gotta make sure I keep an eye on it, but yeah, the minute that, you know, your kid beats a dog to death, you're like, okay, there's something like, you've got some weird thoughts in your head.

35:40.186 --> 35:49.162
[SPEAKER_00]: After the incident with his grandmother, Reed returned to live with his mother and other sister when she learned that his father was planning on putting Reed up for adoption.

35:49.723 --> 35:55.613
[SPEAKER_00]: However, he was kicked out at 16 for attempting to sexually assault his mother and his sister.

35:55.711 --> 35:57.755
[SPEAKER_04]: Wait, his mom was going to put him up for adoption.

35:57.915 --> 36:04.387
[SPEAKER_00]: No, his dad, because he was living with his dad and his paternal grandmother, and after that happened, the dad was going to put him up for adoption.

36:05.089 --> 36:07.012
[SPEAKER_04]: And what age do we think this was that?

36:07.714 --> 36:12.623
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't specify, but it would have had to be, he was somewhere between 10 and 16.

36:12.603 --> 36:18.175
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because he was kicked out of his home at 16 for attempting to sexually assault his mother and his sister.

36:18.295 --> 36:28.958
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, when you talk about warning signs again, you know, at this point you're 16, you've tried to burn your grandmother and her bed, you've beat her dog to death, and then you tried to sexually assault the women and your family.

36:28.938 --> 36:32.144
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely like some huge red flags.

36:32.624 --> 36:38.555
[SPEAKER_00]: He began his criminal career at an early age stealing from close lines of mailboxes in his adolescence.

36:38.575 --> 36:43.403
[SPEAKER_00]: He spent time in juvenile facilities for things like check fraud, auto theft, and petty burglary.

36:44.193 --> 36:48.398
[SPEAKER_00]: Now in 1983, he attempted to rob a steakhouse in Houston, Texas.

36:48.619 --> 36:51.703
[SPEAKER_00]: He was arrested and sentenced to a 20-year prison sentence.

36:52.223 --> 36:55.387
[SPEAKER_00]: He was granted parole after serving only seven years.

36:56.028 --> 36:57.470
[SPEAKER_00]: Now this is where it gets really interesting.

36:57.770 --> 36:59.813
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that it hasn't been, you know, interesting to this point.

36:59.873 --> 37:02.136
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is the part that I think really stuck out to me.

37:03.077 --> 37:08.344
[SPEAKER_00]: In 1997, he moved to Oklahoma to pursue a career as a country music singer.

37:08.763 --> 37:12.536
[SPEAKER_00]: When he failed, he packed his bags and moved to Nashville to try again.

37:12.817 --> 37:16.208
[SPEAKER_00]: He would perform at local talent shows while working at the showneys.

37:16.880 --> 37:17.741
[SPEAKER_04]: I got a question.

37:18.061 --> 37:20.444
[SPEAKER_04]: Who moves to Oklahoma to become a country singer?

37:20.784 --> 37:22.606
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's where Garth Brooks is from, right?

37:22.966 --> 37:24.328
[SPEAKER_00]: Is Garth Brooks from Oklahoma?

37:24.628 --> 37:25.689
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure about that.

37:25.709 --> 37:26.650
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to find out.

37:27.131 --> 37:28.972
[SPEAKER_04]: But Nashville is like country music.

37:28.992 --> 37:32.136
[SPEAKER_04]: Was Nashville not the country music capital of the United States in 1997?

37:32.196 --> 37:36.881
[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine that it was also going through this guy's history.

37:36.941 --> 37:40.004
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also not surprised that he was like, I want to be a country singer.

37:40.024 --> 37:41.305
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll go to Oklahoma.

37:41.465 --> 37:44.068
[SPEAKER_00]: There's lots of dogs in Oklahoma.

37:45.989 --> 37:46.791
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.

37:46.811 --> 37:49.235
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, what I found really interesting, there's a reporter.

37:49.315 --> 37:50.458
[SPEAKER_00]: His name was Kirk Loggins.

37:50.518 --> 37:51.660
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, his name is Kirk Loggins.

37:51.680 --> 38:00.898
[SPEAKER_00]: He's still with us, but he was a former reporter for the Tennessee and he said he believes read to be incredibly self-deluded and this is an actual quote from him.

38:01.098 --> 38:06.529
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of bad demotaps that have been made, but this one was just incredible.

38:06.948 --> 38:09.832
[SPEAKER_00]: how this guy could think he was a country singer is beyond me.

38:10.293 --> 38:13.057
[SPEAKER_04]: So we've met copies of these demo tapes.

38:13.077 --> 38:21.531
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I can find him, I'm going to cut him in right here because they are in the investigation series that I watch, they are bad.

38:22.111 --> 38:28.922
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I will say he did kind of look the part, but his voice is super bad.

38:29.071 --> 38:30.193
[SPEAKER_04]: there's not Garth Brooks.

38:30.213 --> 38:30.493
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

38:31.314 --> 38:37.364
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to go back to Mitch Roberts because again, Mitch Roberts, he's sitting at home all of a sudden, this guy's at his door.

38:38.145 --> 38:40.388
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitch later described Paul as a model employee.

38:40.548 --> 38:41.410
[SPEAKER_00]: He would come in early.

38:41.470 --> 38:46.337
[SPEAKER_00]: He would stay late and do anything that was needed until one day in 1997.

38:46.317 --> 38:52.467
[SPEAKER_00]: Paul became frustrated and through a plate and actually hit a young lady at the restaurant he was fired on the spot.

38:53.088 --> 39:00.560
[SPEAKER_00]: Now what's interesting about this is that he was fired on February 15th 1997, is the day that he was fired.

39:01.401 --> 39:06.469
[SPEAKER_00]: So him showing up the door totally unexpected and he's asking for his job back.

39:06.449 --> 39:08.674
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitch and his family had an eerie feeling.

39:09.135 --> 39:13.024
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitch told Reed, like, listen, I'll work with you, but it's not going to be tonight.

39:13.064 --> 39:14.267
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to have to be tomorrow.

39:14.929 --> 39:16.773
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Mitch let him out to the front porch.

39:17.795 --> 39:22.847
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just go back to dates real quick and then just for the listeners to know that he was fired.

39:23.188 --> 39:24.009
[SPEAKER_04]: February 15th.

39:24.230 --> 39:24.711
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

39:24.775 --> 39:31.922
[SPEAKER_04]: February 15th and it looks like when we go back, the Captain D's murders happen on the morning of February 16th.

39:32.062 --> 39:39.289
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, you know, if you're someone who watches criminal minds or if you are like a true crime fan like we are, that would be called the stressor.

39:39.549 --> 39:46.656
[SPEAKER_00]: So Mitch leads him out to the front porch and is like, hey man, I will work with you tomorrow, like you're at my house, it's late, you gotta go.

39:47.296 --> 39:52.521
[SPEAKER_00]: And at that point, Reed says he had proof that his employees were sealing from him and opened the trunk of his car.

39:52.501 --> 39:59.349
[SPEAKER_00]: Inside the trunk of his car, we're pre-packaged stakes that Mitch recognized from being from the show needs restaurant.

39:59.569 --> 40:03.653
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, I had to stop because I'm like, you have proof that your employees are stealing from you.

40:04.254 --> 40:06.697
[SPEAKER_00]: You open the trunk and you have all this guys.

40:07.097 --> 40:13.664
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have proof that you're stealing from this guy because where did you get them if you didn't take them?

40:13.705 --> 40:14.245
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

40:14.666 --> 40:15.066
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

40:15.991 --> 40:34.273
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, Mitch notices that red is driving a small red car, and it all clicked together for him, because remember, the witnesses from the Baskin Robbins incident, they noticed, hey, there was a red car parked outside 30 minutes later, we saw a red car parked at the state park there, and all of this had been on the news.

40:34.333 --> 40:38.078
[SPEAKER_00]: So in his head, Mitch was like, okay, this could be the guy.

40:38.378 --> 40:40.581
[SPEAKER_00]: So he knew I have to get back into the house.

40:40.730 --> 40:44.918
[SPEAKER_00]: As he was walking around the car, Reed drew a gun and pointed it at Mitch.

40:45.058 --> 40:48.665
[SPEAKER_00]: He then pulled out a pair of handcuffs and instructed Mitch to put them on himself.

40:48.985 --> 40:53.554
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, Mitch says this was either a act of courage or sheer stupidity.

40:53.814 --> 40:57.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitch told Paul that he was walking back in the house and that he would call him tomorrow.

40:57.461 --> 40:59.565
[SPEAKER_00]: And he turned his back on him and started to walk away.

40:59.545 --> 41:06.675
[SPEAKER_00]: As he was walking back to the house, Mitch turned to look at Reed and he now had a gun in one hand and a 10 inch knife in the other.

41:06.896 --> 41:09.399
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitch told Paul, listen, man, I don't want to hurt you.

41:09.439 --> 41:10.901
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you want to hurt me.

41:11.042 --> 41:11.582
[SPEAKER_00]: Put that up.

41:12.063 --> 41:16.790
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the interview, being from Michigan, it's a real like Southern kind of thing to say.

41:16.970 --> 41:18.392
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he's like, come on, man, put that up.

41:18.432 --> 41:19.734
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't you're not going to stab me today.

41:20.495 --> 41:21.597
[SPEAKER_02]: Just put that gun away.

41:21.617 --> 41:22.498
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

41:22.478 --> 41:29.050
[SPEAKER_00]: So Mitch kept walking and as he got to the front door, he turned and like super say and punched him in the chest.

41:29.431 --> 41:31.635
[SPEAKER_00]: Reed flew backwards off the front porch.

41:31.655 --> 41:33.738
[SPEAKER_00]: He ran the house, closed the storm door.

41:33.839 --> 41:36.023
[SPEAKER_00]: He was holding it closed as Reed was trying to open it.

41:36.243 --> 41:42.394
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitch began to yell to his wife, get the gun, hand me the gun, it's right there, give me the gun.

41:42.475 --> 41:44.138
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this was a total bluff.

41:44.358 --> 41:49.166
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitch did not have a gun, but he was like, if I say, I have a gun, maybe I'll scare him off.

41:49.186 --> 41:50.588
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it definitely worked.

41:51.369 --> 41:53.512
[SPEAKER_00]: Reed took off, ran the other direction.

41:54.033 --> 41:57.338
[SPEAKER_00]: And at that point, Mitch called the police and the deputy came out to file a report.

41:57.358 --> 42:03.488
[SPEAKER_00]: Just about the time that the deputy was leaving, Mitch got a phone call, and it was actually Paul Dennis Reed,

42:03.468 --> 42:06.032
[SPEAKER_00]: and he was apologizing and asking if he could come back.

42:06.352 --> 42:07.735
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitch was like, okay, sure.

42:07.895 --> 42:14.325
[SPEAKER_00]: He got the deputy back on the line, the deputy came back out, and essentially the deputies just laid and weighed for Reed to show up.

42:14.825 --> 42:19.793
[SPEAKER_00]: 45 minutes later, Reed returned with another man in the car, and both were arrested on the spot.

42:19.973 --> 42:24.480
[SPEAKER_00]: They knew they had their man, but now, detectives had to tie Reed to the murders.

42:25.304 --> 42:28.690
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to move into the interrogation.

42:28.750 --> 42:31.876
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to say as well, we'll get into a little bit.

42:31.976 --> 42:35.342
[SPEAKER_00]: But we've kind of noticed the mental illness trends.

42:35.562 --> 42:42.695
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think in the interrogation, it takes it to a whole nother level because Reed was overly polite, detected pastigly owning.

42:42.795 --> 42:47.363
[SPEAKER_00]: He recalls Paul Dennis Reed being fixated on wanting the detectives to like him.

42:47.343 --> 43:10.431
[SPEAKER_00]: read with say things like if I'm the killer the murder you shouldn't want to be my friend either he would also go on to say let's say I am the killer I don't just want you to hate me so he was very concerned like even if I did these things like I'm still not a bad guy it was just very weird right be my friend right friend I'm not I'm not a murder or even if I was just be my friend we could still get a secret we got

43:10.647 --> 43:20.320
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will say the way that this guy talks and if you guys want to look up some YouTube videos, there's an interview with him where he was saying, I did not commit these nefarious homo sides.

43:20.521 --> 43:22.764
[SPEAKER_00]: And he just keeps calling him homo sides.

43:22.784 --> 43:23.605
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, homo sides.

43:24.546 --> 43:28.852
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, these nefarious homo sides.

43:28.952 --> 43:32.937
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very- I'm not that my little accent was strong.

43:33.158 --> 43:35.581
[SPEAKER_00]: It is very Texas, Oklahoma.

43:35.601 --> 43:38.004
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, just like I'm meld of all three of them.

43:38.085 --> 43:39.186
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's real weird.

43:39.166 --> 43:41.831
[SPEAKER_00]: not to offend anybody who says homo sats.

43:42.472 --> 43:44.275
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not a serial killer and that's how you say it.

43:44.315 --> 43:45.076
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean to offend you.

43:45.257 --> 43:51.548
[SPEAKER_00]: But basically, he is on record of saying that Reed was one of the most bizarre individuals that he had ever come across.

43:51.708 --> 43:55.555
[SPEAKER_00]: But police are going to need more than that feeling to tie Reed to the murders.

43:55.535 --> 44:01.422
[SPEAKER_00]: They run his prints, and they find that the fingerprint on Steve Hampton's video rental card is a match to read.

44:01.822 --> 44:05.586
[SPEAKER_00]: In addition, Hozigg and Zollis is able to make a positive identification.

44:06.027 --> 44:10.532
[SPEAKER_00]: A search of reads home turns up a damning amount of evidence in the Basque Robbins murder.

44:11.012 --> 44:22.605
[SPEAKER_00]: Blood from both Michelle Hayes and Angela Holmes are found on a pair of shoes, and further forensic evidence included microfibers matching samples taken from his car on the bodies of his final two victims.

44:22.585 --> 44:27.861
[SPEAKER_00]: Reeds extravagant spending on dates after the murders was also used as evidence against him.

44:28.142 --> 44:31.111
[SPEAKER_00]: So he was taking all this money and then just taking ladies out on dates.

44:31.632 --> 44:33.779
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to know how is he getting these women on the dates?

44:33.799 --> 44:36.848
[SPEAKER_04]: Was he singing his country song demos to them or what?

44:36.997 --> 44:41.403
[SPEAKER_00]: So this thing for like 90s guy and I'll link up like a picture to him.

44:41.543 --> 44:43.726
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't like a terrible looking dude like he worked out.

44:43.906 --> 44:47.892
[SPEAKER_00]: He probably told me like yeah, I'm here in Nashville trying to be a country singer.

44:48.032 --> 44:51.918
[SPEAKER_00]: But the one thing I want to know is most of the money that he stole was in coins, right?

44:51.958 --> 45:01.030
[SPEAKER_00]: We've already talked about how long it would take to roll like he's got this extravagant spending but he's like, you know, taking ladies out and giving the waders like rolls of coins.

45:01.010 --> 45:02.874
[SPEAKER_04]: I got 50 cents for a tip here.

45:02.894 --> 45:03.535
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, here you go.

45:03.876 --> 45:05.599
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's a $50 ball of wine.

45:05.619 --> 45:07.382
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just got rolls of course.

45:07.863 --> 45:08.464
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

45:08.505 --> 45:10.829
[SPEAKER_04]: He's looking up Paul Dennis Reed right now.

45:10.909 --> 45:12.132
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's not a half bad.

45:12.172 --> 45:14.115
[SPEAKER_04]: He's definitely very muscular.

45:14.416 --> 45:14.997
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

45:15.017 --> 45:16.440
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd see we're in the 90's.

45:16.560 --> 45:17.402
[SPEAKER_04]: He would be a charmer.

45:17.602 --> 45:18.744
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got the 90's mustache.

45:18.865 --> 45:20.588
[SPEAKER_00]: But since you have the picture pulled up.

45:20.568 --> 45:22.751
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you notice anything about his eyes?

45:23.011 --> 45:26.796
[SPEAKER_00]: Because to me, it looks like he has the eyes of a great white shark.

45:26.816 --> 45:29.299
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like there is just nothing behind them.

45:29.679 --> 45:34.445
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if anybody's ever seen jaws, but then when he's like that, lifeless eyes, like a doll's eyes.

45:34.565 --> 45:35.987
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I could see that.

45:36.087 --> 45:38.650
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're very, not sad, but they have this weird.

45:38.790 --> 45:40.452
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, they just look, he looks rough.

45:40.632 --> 45:42.795
[SPEAKER_04]: He looks rough in these pictures, you know?

45:42.775 --> 45:50.607
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's weird because people have actually commented on this, he had a bunch of plastic surgery to improve his looks.

45:50.847 --> 45:55.815
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at that picture of him, you'll kind of see where he's got those weird lines on the side of his eyes.

45:56.396 --> 46:01.223
[SPEAKER_00]: When police search his home, they also found a lot of evidence that he had illusions of Granger.

46:01.203 --> 46:05.935
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a lot of pictures with him like posing in front of these expensive cars and stuff like that.

46:06.135 --> 46:09.464
[SPEAKER_00]: But they have literally commented being like, you got all this plastic surgery.

46:09.624 --> 46:14.436
[SPEAKER_00]: He could not fix his eyes because he's just got these like like these shark eyes.

46:15.192 --> 46:16.735
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and they're just very droopy.

46:16.815 --> 46:19.139
[SPEAKER_04]: They just, they look empty.

46:19.379 --> 46:21.503
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's very strange.

46:21.723 --> 46:28.495
[SPEAKER_00]: And when they found out that he had been fired on February 15th, which again was the day before the Captain Dees murder.

46:28.955 --> 46:31.740
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when they were able to put everything together.

46:31.760 --> 46:35.226
[SPEAKER_00]: And now the other thing that they learned was that,

46:35.206 --> 46:41.203
[SPEAKER_00]: when he was arrested in Houston for the robbery of the state house, there was witnesses.

46:41.644 --> 46:46.819
[SPEAKER_00]: So they believe that that's where he learned, listen, if I'm going to rob this place, I'm not leaving any witnesses.

46:47.322 --> 46:50.408
[SPEAKER_00]: We flash forward to May of 2000 and now the trial is underway.

46:50.428 --> 46:56.499
[SPEAKER_00]: So in separate trials, Reed was found guilty of all seven murders and sentenced to die by lethal injection.

46:56.759 --> 47:01.107
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though Reed was convicted and sentenced to death, it brought little closure to the family.

47:01.307 --> 47:05.234
[SPEAKER_00]: Michelle May's mother, Connie Black, has said, you know, you never really have closure.

47:05.855 --> 47:07.719
[SPEAKER_00]: Your child will always be gone on this earth.

47:08.139 --> 47:10.123
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll never see her again here.

47:10.103 --> 47:11.245
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to get used to that.

47:11.305 --> 47:12.186
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to know that.

47:12.587 --> 47:14.650
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, again, as a parent, that was one of those things.

47:14.750 --> 47:22.902
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, even if heaven forbid anything happened to someone in my family like that, I can imagine that even if that person ascends while you're, you know, probably happy that it happened.

47:22.942 --> 47:24.625
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't bring any real closure.

47:24.965 --> 47:25.406
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

47:25.426 --> 47:26.768
[SPEAKER_00]: That's got to be a hard thing.

47:26.808 --> 47:27.749
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

47:27.869 --> 47:32.276
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you'll never get closure when your loved one was murdered, but at least they've caught them.

47:32.296 --> 47:37.784
[SPEAKER_04]: There's so many cold case files in the United States and probably all over the world that people have no sense of closure.

47:37.804 --> 47:39.807
[SPEAKER_04]: No idea what happened to their loved one.

47:40.360 --> 47:57.934
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a feeling that as we go through and we do more episodes for the podcast, I have a feeling that's probably what we're going to see is either that, you know, I'm happy that they caught them or like can somebody please catch this guy because what one person has it may not be necessarily enough for them, you know, there's another person that's just begging for that.

47:58.054 --> 48:02.082
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting how crimes like these can leave people feeling.

48:02.213 --> 48:06.960
[SPEAKER_00]: Now after the trial, Reed's family argued that he was mentally incompetent to stand trial.

48:07.280 --> 48:11.226
[SPEAKER_00]: Following his conviction, they argued that he was not able to make sound legal decisions.

48:11.506 --> 48:16.073
[SPEAKER_00]: He displayed a ratic decision making, choosing to appeal some of the verdicts but not others.

48:16.574 --> 48:21.841
[SPEAKER_00]: He also expressed his desire to die as sentence after fighting to avoid that fate in his earlier defense.

48:22.001 --> 48:29.352
[SPEAKER_00]: He also displayed signs of paranoia, calling his defense team actors and claiming that he was part of a government-run mind-control project.

48:30.462 --> 48:40.292
[SPEAKER_04]: So why in 2000 does the family decide to say that he is mentally incompetent when there were signs of him being mentally incompetent at the age of four?

48:40.812 --> 48:45.097
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what's very interesting is that these primarily came from one of his sisters.

48:45.898 --> 48:55.187
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I'm wondering is as an adult and as she's gone through her life, because I'm sure that she had a lot of trauma that she had to work out, so I'm wondering if

48:56.416 --> 49:13.750
[SPEAKER_00]: you know kind of looking back because that and that's the thing too when you're researching something like this like you get little snippets but didn't say who hit him in the head with the brick you don't know was a grandma was a debt doesn't really go into that and that's another really hard thing too is that I'm sure is like even if your family member does something terrible it's

49:14.303 --> 49:15.564
[SPEAKER_04]: There's still your family member.

49:15.584 --> 49:23.433
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're probably still like, I love this person, regardless, you know, and I think it brings in the idea that people can be more than one thing.

49:23.853 --> 49:24.133
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

49:24.394 --> 49:34.845
[SPEAKER_00]: You may be my brother, and we fix our relationship or whatever, and you're good to me, but then at the same time you're doing these heinous things, you know, it's just, I don't know, it's a weird dynamic.

49:36.086 --> 49:41.712
[SPEAKER_00]: That was really interesting to me too, that he was claiming that he was part of a government-run mind-control project.

49:43.295 --> 49:44.457
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to look to you buddy.

49:44.598 --> 49:44.838
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

49:45.119 --> 49:48.405
[SPEAKER_00]: Through appeals, read avoided death by lethal injection.

49:48.566 --> 49:53.876
[SPEAKER_00]: In 2013, Reed was actually hospitalized at Nashville General Hospital of Mahari.

49:54.498 --> 50:00.851
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know Vemper first read died from complications due to pneumonia, heart failure, and upper respiratory issue.

50:01.271 --> 50:04.037
[SPEAKER_00]: He had met in the hospital for about two weeks.

50:04.017 --> 50:04.738
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.

50:05.019 --> 50:26.971
[SPEAKER_00]: They caught them, you know, and to me, and I'm wondering if we're going to see this a lot too, because I believe it's a similar thing, with the case that you're doing next week, not to spoil anything, but it's like, it feels like it's almost like karma, where it's like, okay, you're appealing, you're appealing, you know, you didn't die by lethal injection, but the universe still found some way to be like, karma.

50:27.132 --> 50:28.313
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I got to get you out of here.

50:28.614 --> 50:30.096
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah.

50:30.116 --> 50:31.999
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you think of this story?

50:33.110 --> 50:58.054
[SPEAKER_04]: So you know, it goes all back to this childhood, you know, I can't get past that if people had I feel like just now in general talking about mental health where we are these days, you know, we talk more openly about mental health and getting people helped in admitting them to psychiatric facilities and trying to get these behaviors that they may be under control, but I just wonder sometimes if that inside the mind of someone who is.

50:58.034 --> 50:59.877
[SPEAKER_04]: a true psychopath.

50:59.957 --> 51:08.049
[SPEAKER_04]: You can see the aggression as he commits these murders and how they get more heinous as he goes on and he doesn't in such a short period of time.

51:08.109 --> 51:13.076
[SPEAKER_04]: But you then you wonder what is he doing in the weeks that he's not murdering and committing these crimes?

51:13.317 --> 51:19.606
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I don't think that he's just hiding out afraid that he's going to get caught or of course he wouldn't have committed the other two crimes.

51:20.387 --> 51:22.590
[SPEAKER_04]: So you just wonder like what is he doing in his life?

51:22.771 --> 51:27.838
[SPEAKER_00]: What does he

51:28.797 --> 51:57.927
[SPEAKER_04]: If he just recording his demos and dates and just limit normal life in the five weeks and maybe he's maybe he has some sort of mania or some split personality disorder, you know, it doesn't it'd be interesting to see what his like psychological evaluations would be after he was arrested and imprisoned to kind of determine like, okay, like on a scale of one to 10, how much of a psychopath are you, but I just wonder if he was just like in these areas of mania when he would go and kill all these people.

51:57.907 --> 52:07.563
[SPEAKER_04]: It's almost like he was living like he wanted to live a different lifestyle than he was living like you know he said he would take pictures in front of these expensive cars he would take women on these dates.

52:07.984 --> 52:20.244
[SPEAKER_04]: So like does he have to kill to get the money like to be able to be this guy who's like this up and coming or trying to be an up and coming country star and he has to wine and dying these people and it's all fraud.

52:20.304 --> 52:23.610
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't know there could be a lot of things that could be behind all of this, but.

52:23.590 --> 52:37.817
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a really good point too because it's like, are you committing these murders and sealing this money because you believe that it's, you know, you need this money to get where you, because, you know, being a musician I can tell you, recording studio time is not cheap, especially a national, like if you're trying to do something legit.

52:37.837 --> 52:46.493
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, are you doing this because you're trying to get money to pursue what you think you're meant to do or is what you think you're meant to do not working out?

52:46.473 --> 52:56.284
[SPEAKER_00]: And so as an excuse, you have to be like, you know, I have to get money, so I'm going to commit these robberies, but then the act of the murder is like, I'm being punished so you're going to be punished now.

52:56.624 --> 52:56.945
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

52:57.846 --> 52:58.146
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

52:58.226 --> 52:59.768
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting to think about.

52:59.908 --> 53:07.116
[SPEAKER_00]: One of your questions I was reading, we didn't really get into a lot, but he did have like several psych evaluations that were done and everybody was like, he's competent.

53:07.136 --> 53:13.223
[SPEAKER_00]: He's, he's had some mental health issues in the past, but at this point, you know, it seems like he's competent and he's fully aware of what he's doing.

53:13.591 --> 53:18.497
[SPEAKER_04]: But there's definitely underlying things, because why does a grown man go get plastic surgery in the early 90s?

53:19.058 --> 53:19.479
[SPEAKER_04]: They don't.

53:19.559 --> 53:27.329
[SPEAKER_00]: Plastic surgery now doesn't look like if you see somebody with plastic surgery now, you're like, oh, you got plastic surgery where in the 90s, it was, that's not a comment.

53:27.349 --> 53:29.832
[SPEAKER_04]: That what they even women weren't really doing all the plastic surgery.

53:29.852 --> 53:37.742
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the very wealthy probably were, but I would say that a regular guy in Nashville probably wasn't your first guy showing up at the plastic surgeon's office.

53:37.975 --> 53:46.344
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just interesting to think like, do you rob a restaurant and kill three people and then two nights later, you're at the Hunky Tonk on Broadway?

53:46.364 --> 53:52.090
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause you know, living in that area, if you walk down Broadway, there's a hundred different bars and a hundred different people playing.

53:52.310 --> 53:54.773
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you like live music, it's the place to be.

53:55.313 --> 53:59.438
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess maybe because I'm not a psychopath, it's hard to compartmentalize.

53:59.838 --> 54:03.662
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I did this terrible thing and now I'm gonna go out and you know, play a few shows

54:03.642 --> 54:07.507
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's almost like, how do you how do you disconnect from the guilt?

54:07.707 --> 54:11.132
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, even if even when you were a kid, think of if you did something bad and you were a kid.

54:11.572 --> 54:15.738
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're like, oh, my mom's going to find out my mom's going to find out what's going to happen if they find out.

54:16.198 --> 54:22.006
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, how do these people just go and commit these heinous crimes and then live a normal life?

54:22.066 --> 54:23.187
[SPEAKER_04]: That's just what blows my mind.

54:23.207 --> 54:27.032
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's what just makes it very interesting to me that like, it's like, oh, it's no big deal.

54:27.092 --> 54:29.295
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just what I did on my Friday night.

54:29.444 --> 54:29.885
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.

54:29.925 --> 54:31.227
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a very distinct memory.

54:31.387 --> 54:40.339
[SPEAKER_00]: I stayed the night at I must have been like eight or nine and I stayed the night at my friend Sean's house and his dad had playboy magazines.

54:40.359 --> 54:41.621
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know, I'm like nine years old.

54:41.661 --> 54:44.786
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, look at this and so my mom came and picked me up the next day.

54:45.066 --> 54:51.435
[SPEAKER_00]: I got in the car and I guess I was being quiet and she was like, so what you guys do just to have fun and the only thing I said was,

54:52.023 --> 54:53.287
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw poobies in a magazine.

54:53.327 --> 55:00.629
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, just immediately evolving like I just, I had so much guilt that I was, you know, I was like, I did something wrong.

55:00.669 --> 55:01.190
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to tell you.

55:01.411 --> 55:01.612
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

55:01.632 --> 55:04.480
[SPEAKER_04]: So then I guess it's safe to say that you're not a psychopath serial killer.

55:04.831 --> 55:06.154
[SPEAKER_00]: not a psychopath one at least.

55:06.394 --> 55:07.997
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just kidding.

55:08.558 --> 55:09.540
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where we get into.

55:09.601 --> 55:25.192
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very excited about this because I think we may differ a little bit and this is where if you're listening to the show definitely hit us up on social media we'll talk about where in just a minute but want to kind of get our overall feelings and want to hear your feedback and this is going to be the deadbolt scale.

55:25.432 --> 55:25.793
[SPEAKER_00]: So

55:25.773 --> 55:30.718
[SPEAKER_00]: with the the deadbolt scale essentially is a scale from one to ten after hearing this story.

55:30.958 --> 55:35.403
[SPEAKER_00]: How likely would you be as you were laying in bed tonight to get up and check the locks?

55:35.703 --> 55:36.965
[SPEAKER_00]: How did this one sit with you?

55:36.985 --> 55:39.027
[SPEAKER_00]: Did it rattle you to the core or is it?

55:39.127 --> 55:39.868
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I'm just going to bed.

55:39.888 --> 55:40.889
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not carrying it with me.

55:41.249 --> 55:43.511
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to start with you Olivia before I give give mine.

55:43.552 --> 55:46.535
[SPEAKER_00]: But on a scale of one to ten after covering this story.

55:47.776 --> 55:49.838
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do you fall on that deadbolt test?

55:51.079 --> 55:51.360
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

55:51.380 --> 55:52.641
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to place myself.

55:53.195 --> 55:57.185
[SPEAKER_04]: in the 90s and I'm going to place myself in 2022 in current time.

55:58.108 --> 56:06.850
[SPEAKER_04]: So if I in 1997 I was seven years old so I can't really you know say that this would scare it wouldn't scare me too much because I wouldn't know really about what's happening.

56:07.117 --> 56:16.675
[SPEAKER_04]: But I can relate myself to a situation from my hometown where a lady was murdered at the local Taco Bell literally right outside my neighborhood.

56:16.975 --> 56:20.542
[SPEAKER_04]: And she was locked in a cooler and basically brutally murdered.

56:20.742 --> 56:23.026
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think the case is still a cold, a cold file.

56:23.046 --> 56:24.409
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we'll do this on our episode.

56:24.750 --> 56:30.981
[SPEAKER_04]: But I remember when that happened, I was terrified that there was a murder literally

56:30.961 --> 56:47.434
[SPEAKER_04]: So back in my child, 1997 mine, I would say that it would probably be about a nine for me, you know, can't go to your local captain D's McDonald, you know, and all that is right there from where I grew up and then having something similar happened like literally right in my backyard, I would say a nine.

56:47.414 --> 56:53.963
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, if I was in current time, I would say this one just seems like a regular strike of a serial killer.

56:54.043 --> 56:55.345
[SPEAKER_04]: Some of put it about at a five.

56:55.605 --> 56:57.128
[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely going to make sure the doors are locked.

56:57.648 --> 57:00.993
[SPEAKER_04]: If I was in Mitch's family, I would definitely lock him twice or three times.

57:01.113 --> 57:02.936
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, because he was coming after him.

57:03.536 --> 57:04.898
[SPEAKER_04]: So I put that one right there in the middle.

57:04.978 --> 57:06.821
[SPEAKER_04]: It's definitely acts of heinous crime.

57:06.881 --> 57:10.766
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can definitely tell that as he committed more crimes, they got worse.

57:11.027 --> 57:16.915
[SPEAKER_04]: And he got more aggressive.

57:16.895 --> 57:18.078
[SPEAKER_04]: Sociopath.

57:18.138 --> 57:19.160
[SPEAKER_04]: So I put it right at a five.

57:19.581 --> 57:19.721
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

57:19.741 --> 57:21.084
[SPEAKER_04]: I would definitely go check the locks.

57:21.225 --> 57:30.786
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm probably not going to have too many uncomfortable moments going to sleep thinking about Paul Dennis Reed, but definitely puts a little chill down your spine

57:31.070 --> 57:34.154
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to say our thought process was very similar.

57:34.174 --> 57:39.202
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, just so I get this out of the way, there could be a mass murder at my local Taco Bell.

57:39.622 --> 57:42.186
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not stopping me from getting my cheesy Gordida crunch.

57:42.286 --> 57:45.270
[SPEAKER_00]: I would walk over bodies in an active crunch.

57:45.651 --> 57:47.414
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm a huge Taco Bell fan.

57:47.494 --> 57:52.501
[SPEAKER_04]: Anybody who probably knows me or knows anything about my life knows that I love Taco Bell.

57:52.521 --> 57:54.023
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it is my guilty pleasure.

57:54.003 --> 57:56.306
[SPEAKER_04]: could eat it three, four times a week if it was healthy.

57:57.046 --> 58:00.090
[SPEAKER_04]: And so this was in the era of when they had the Chaco tacos.

58:00.610 --> 58:05.816
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's great news because that was in the time of the Chaco Taco.

58:05.916 --> 58:10.581
[SPEAKER_04]: So you couldn't go get your dessert Chaco Taco because one of the Taco Bell was close for a long time.

58:10.942 --> 58:13.485
[SPEAKER_04]: And it actually reopened in that same location.

58:13.865 --> 58:16.568
[SPEAKER_04]: Probably I couldn't take the time for him, but probably several months.

58:16.548 --> 58:19.153
[SPEAKER_04]: But there was always like, oh, you're eating at Taco Bell.

58:19.493 --> 58:21.317
[SPEAKER_04]: I bet you there's whatever in the meat.

58:21.337 --> 58:23.060
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, why are you eating at that Taco Bell?

58:23.361 --> 58:24.763
[SPEAKER_04]: And in my mind, I'm like, it's clean.

58:24.803 --> 58:25.084
[SPEAKER_04]: It's fine.

58:25.104 --> 58:26.366
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to get my Taco Taco.

58:26.406 --> 58:28.089
[SPEAKER_04]: My bean burritos and move on with my life.

58:28.570 --> 58:33.800
[SPEAKER_04]: But it wasn't up until probably in the last five to six years that the Taco Bell is in a different location.

58:33.880 --> 58:35.403
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it's in a completely different building.

58:35.703 --> 58:39.450
[SPEAKER_04]: But it reopens and we continue to eat there after this happened.

58:39.430 --> 58:41.654
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, there's no shame in my Taco Bell game.

58:41.935 --> 58:44.861
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they had the chili cheese burrito back in the day.

58:45.081 --> 58:46.224
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, there was so good.

58:46.264 --> 58:49.590
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I could eat like six of them in a day.

58:49.911 --> 58:52.917
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's because I'm on healthy and I need to take care of myself.

58:53.150 --> 58:56.875
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, John, so what is your take on check in the lock?

58:56.896 --> 59:00.401
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually kind of in line with your thought process.

59:00.921 --> 59:13.620
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me in 2022, because I will tell you, I was up until like 130 the morning, doing my research, taking notes, dabba's reading, cork documents, all that stuff, and then at 130, I went to sleep like a baby.

59:13.640 --> 59:14.922
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't carry any of it with me.

59:14.902 --> 59:33.872
[SPEAKER_00]: In 2022, I think I would give it a four because I don't work in a fast food restaurant, but what really hit me was the idea of appearance being terrified of like sending their teenagers to go work and having the kid, I think that hit me a little bit harder than it would if, you know, this was, you know, four years ago and I didn't have one.

59:34.223 --> 59:38.511
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, put yourself in your shoes and Millie's 16 goal into work at McDonald's.

59:38.531 --> 59:38.912
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

59:38.932 --> 59:43.400
[SPEAKER_00]: And when she gets that age, I think this is something that will come back to me.

59:43.701 --> 59:49.231
[SPEAKER_00]: At that point, it doesn't really hit me now, but when she's 15, 16, she's got her car.

59:49.291 --> 59:51.175
[SPEAKER_00]: She's driving all the worries that come in your head.

59:51.215 --> 59:55.523
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this is gonna be the one I was like, you know about Paul Dennis Reak, right?

59:55.503 --> 01:00:01.572
[SPEAKER_00]: But going back to, when I was, you know, 16th, I worked in a broasted chicken restaurant.

01:00:01.712 --> 01:00:02.854
[SPEAKER_00]: I worked at Fizzoli's.

01:00:03.115 --> 01:00:05.819
[SPEAKER_00]: I worked in a lot of restaurants.

01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:11.928
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I would have heard about this when I was like 16, 17, because I always close, I would have been terrified.

01:00:11.948 --> 01:00:13.851
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it would have been a 10 for me at that point.

01:00:14.051 --> 01:00:15.013
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, a hundred percent.

01:00:15.193 --> 01:00:21.202
[SPEAKER_04]: You could be the next victim waiting to be attacked by Paul Dennis, or you can be the next fast food restaurant killer.

01:00:21.382 --> 01:00:21.522
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:00:21.542 --> 01:00:23.265
[SPEAKER_00]: For like $12 in quarters.

01:00:23.566 --> 01:00:30.315
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks to that manager Mitch at the show needs for putting his protective hat on figure and out that Mr. Reed is not a nice man.

01:00:30.576 --> 01:00:30.776
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

01:00:31.217 --> 01:00:34.521
[SPEAKER_00]: And for the people listening, that's where we stand on the Debolt test.

01:00:34.621 --> 01:00:36.865
[SPEAKER_00]: However, we would love to hear from you.

01:00:37.065 --> 01:00:39.188
[SPEAKER_00]: Did this story shake you a little bit?

01:00:39.448 --> 01:00:40.610
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to sleep like a baby?

01:00:40.870 --> 01:00:42.292
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, not going to have any thoughts about it.

01:00:42.653 --> 01:00:46.398
[SPEAKER_00]: You can let us know we are on Instagram and check the locks pod.

01:00:46.458 --> 01:00:48.220
[SPEAKER_00]: We are on Twitter and check the locks.

01:00:48.601 --> 01:00:50.223
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a Facebook group that you can join.

01:00:50.263 --> 01:00:51.565
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually have 50 members.

01:00:51.545 --> 01:00:52.968
[SPEAKER_00]: We have 50 members of one day.

01:00:52.988 --> 01:00:53.769
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, all right.

01:00:53.809 --> 01:00:54.310
[SPEAKER_00]: Hell yeah.

01:00:54.771 --> 01:00:56.374
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're getting on up there.

01:00:56.394 --> 01:00:57.216
[SPEAKER_00]: A little podcast.

01:00:57.236 --> 01:00:57.656
[SPEAKER_00]: The good.

01:00:57.917 --> 01:01:00.602
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, this episode is available on Apple Podcasts.

01:01:00.622 --> 01:01:01.203
[SPEAKER_00]: Spotify.

01:01:01.484 --> 01:01:02.906
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get it on Google Podcasts.

01:01:02.926 --> 01:01:04.890
[SPEAKER_00]: Stitcher, I'm sure it's on AM radio somewhere.

01:01:05.030 --> 01:01:07.815
[SPEAKER_00]: Please leave us a five star review.

01:01:07.956 --> 01:01:09.258
[SPEAKER_00]: Let us know what you think of the show.

01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:12.945
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what would be fun, Olivia, and I wanted to kind of run this by you.

01:01:12.925 --> 01:01:23.919
[SPEAKER_00]: What if every week we pick a five star review, we read it on the show, and then we got a bunch of stickers coming, we could even send out some stickers, do some giveaways, things like that, how do you feel?

01:01:23.939 --> 01:01:24.940
[SPEAKER_04]: I would love giveaways.

01:01:25.060 --> 01:01:38.697
[SPEAKER_04]: I love winning things, because I never went so yeah, like our pages, give us some feedback, let us know what you like about our podcasts, what you think we could do better, and just leave us a review, tell us, tell us you enjoyed our stories, and we'll send you some loot.

01:01:39.132 --> 01:01:40.274
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.

01:01:40.294 --> 01:01:41.236
[SPEAKER_00]: That's episode number one.

01:01:41.357 --> 01:01:41.818
[SPEAKER_00]: We did it.

01:01:42.359 --> 01:01:43.261
[SPEAKER_00]: Super excited.

01:01:43.401 --> 01:01:44.263
[SPEAKER_00]: Episode number two.

01:01:44.423 --> 01:01:44.944
[SPEAKER_00]: Check it out.

01:01:45.105 --> 01:01:47.009
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, thank you so much for listening to us.

01:01:47.129 --> 01:01:47.931
[SPEAKER_00]: Go into the story.

01:01:48.231 --> 01:01:49.294
[SPEAKER_00]: Super, super fun.

01:01:49.374 --> 01:01:52.480
[SPEAKER_00]: Super happy to be doing this and don't forget to check your locks.

01:01:52.500 --> 01:01:53.783
[SPEAKER_03]: Have a good night, everybody.